Avalanche Discussion Experiment

The idea for this board has been brewing for a while and the kickstart to actually put it up came from a number of folks who were looking for a place to have "roundtable" discussions about avalanche risk, hazard mitigation, accident analysis, etc...  They decided that finding a home for it online would reach a lot more folks and allow much greater participation, so here we are with the "Weak Layers" experiment.

This is not intended to be a conditions-reporting venue, since TRs are good for that, but rather a place to discuss how we manage our risk as we travel in or around avalanche terrain.  The human factors that influence risk management are probably the biggest part of why it was created, since they, more than anything else, seem to play a big role in so many accidents and near-misses.

This is all an experiment, but hopefully it can be a useful tool for folks looking to learn and share their experiences.  I'm open to suggestions on how it may best be used.

Anyone dug to the ground this December 2011? Is our snopack still sitting on sugar/hoar/ nasty stuff?

Split the weak layer discussion that Cookie and Gary had going to here:

www.turns-all-year.com/skiing_snowboardi...ex.php?topic=22760.0

Great idea Marcus.

Since I am pretty rusty on all of this, I'd be interested to see some pre-ski best practices checklists from people.

My basic checklists:

Partners and personal rules
*Ski only with partners whose skills and judgement I know and trust.
*Ski with folks who abide by the weakest skier sets the pace and tone rule (this person may change, as one skier may not be a strong climber, another may not feel safe in certain terrain, etc.).
*Do not ski with strong, young, ambitious males who need the space to chart their own courses. I am too boring for them anyway.
*Avoid tours that involve exposure (cliffs).

Pre ski weather and avalanche forecast checks
*Follow weather and snow conditions on NWAC and via TAY trip reports days before the planned trip.
*Print the latest NWAC avy forecast the night before the ski day. Don't go if avy rating is high or above; considerable, address this with partners and make a decision. If going, discuss safer aspects and slope angles to visit.
*Review weather forecast. If high winds and or heavy, wet precip coming, stay home.

Gear
*Check beacon batteries and replace if lower than 90% charge. Carry spares.
*Keep shovel, probe, extra clothes, emergency food and bottle of water in pack at all times.
*Ensure cell phone is fully charged.
*Compass and map of area.

At mountain
*Group beacon check at parking area.
*Personnel check at parking area, does anyone seem unmotivated or tired, anyone supercharged-
*Group check-in on basic tour overview and why that course (implies this has been thought out by a knowledgeable person).

OK, I will stop here, knowing I am not going into the actual on-slope safety work (pits, ski cuts, observing snow pack behavior, spacing, buddy system). Someone else more qualified might add this technical stuff. My personal opinion is the decisions made before getting to skiable slopes should be designed to keep away from dangerous snowpacks in the first place. That said, I am in no way saying that field checks and climbing/skiing protocols are not necessary. For the record, my standard is the column compression and shear test. But I'd really like to hear from others on this piece...

So there's a start... Feel free to have at it, fill in the gaps, etc...

this is a topic of great interest to me... I became AIARE certified to teach courses last winter and was at first a bit disenchanted with their rigid "decision making framework" (DMF) and proposed grid-pattern thought process that would almost surely be dismissed the first tour beyond the class by a certain demographic of backcountry skiers.

Certainly, the established backcountry culture in Washington (that, it seems to me, to be a bit more aged relative to the young 'freeriders' crawling all over more developed ranges like the Wasatch - my other range) may strictly adhere to the DMF as they venture forth.

However the DMF, I believe ignores the culture of Rad, the culture of Ego that permeates ski and mountain culture. I understand what the DMF strives to do and I support that, but I believe there needs to be a long conversation that caters to young, mostly male resort skiers that will surely be in step behind the mountain community of the Wasatch - which is a microcosm of what backcountry travel will look like as mountains everywhere become more crowded.

My ideas to approach this culture with students is to:

1) ask them if they have a "list". Those skiers that do and do not have this "list" are of entirely different psychological camps. The culture of the objective: that either applies to you or it doesn't, or it doesn't yet.

2) Find various creative ways to quiz students on their capacity for risk. I am still brainstorming ways to evoke more profound and truthful responses that may in the end surprise the individuals themselves. Or it could be as simple as asking them what's on their list.

That's it for now.. I would love to hear what yall think. Another thing I would love to see in this forum are accounts from people who have been in avalanche accidents in regards to the group psychology (alpha leaders, group pressure etc) prior to the accident. Please?!! thanks, I have an essay about a close call I had on The Arm that I will try to post here.

Cheers.