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And the winner is....Buckinghorse! Yay!

  • garyabrill
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14 years 10 months ago #199320 by garyabrill
And the winner is....Buckinghorse! Yay! was created by garyabrill
The Buckinghorse telemetry site in the Olympics that Amar mentioned earlier looks like it got a sweet 12" of rain (roughly) in a 24 hour period to carry the day. www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?w...&num=168&raw=0&dbn=m

The most I ever heard of in 24 hours was at Verlot way back when with 14". The Pilchuck ski area was in operation at the time. Must have been awesome. (There was also the 18" in 36 hours at Rainier a couple of January's ago.)

I had a freind who skied at Baker when 7" fell during the day back in the 80's. He said there were standing puddles or small tarns on top of the snow.



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  • Joedabaker
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14 years 10 months ago #199323 by Joedabaker
Replied by Joedabaker on topic Re: And the winner is....Buckinghorse! Yay!

I had a freind who skied at Baker when 7" fell during the day back in the 80's. He said there were standing puddles or small tarns on top of the snow.


I think I was there that day. They were handing out bags to ski in. Later the lifties were telling us that there was a chance the road was going to wash out and it did at Boulder Creek. We were stuck on the Glacier side for 3 days until they could get a temp bridge built. They stopped selling alcohol since it was getting a little wild.

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  • jp_
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14 years 10 months ago #199337 by jp_
Pigtail Peak Snotel

Malfunction or legit?

15.50 inches in 24 hours as of  March 31 @ 2:00 p.m.

7.00 inches in an hour March 30 @ 8:00 p.m.

www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?w...&num=168&raw=0&dbn=m

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  • Amar Andalkar
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14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #199342 by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: And the winner is....Buckinghorse! Yay!

The Buckinghorse telemetry site in the Olympics that Amar mentioned earlier looks like it got a sweet 12" of rain (roughly) in a 24 hour period to carry the day. www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?w...&num=168&raw=0&dbn=m

The most I ever heard of in 24 hours was at Verlot way back when with 14". The Pilchuck ski area was in operation at the time. Must have been awesome. (There was also the 18" in 36 hours at Rainier a couple of January's ago.)


Wow, that's some pretty good rainfall in the Olympics! The data does look a bit fishy during the first few hours from 4am to 8am, when over 7" of precip was recorded. That's a very unusually high rainfall rate, so it may be a glitch.

It's also interesting to see that the Buckinghorse site has additional sensors (solar radiation, dew point, RH, etc), which don't show up in the normal SNOTEL data (although it can be found in the "14-Day Climate Sensor Report" on this page www.or.nrcs.usda.gov/snow/maps/sitepages/23b18s.html ). Surprisingly, the solar data shows that it's partly sunny up high in the Olympics today, which is verified by looking at the Hurricane Ridge Webcam (18 miles north of Buckinghorse).

I've heard that 18" in 36 hours number claimed for Paradise, which was actually during the November 2006 storm and flooding which closed the park for 6 months. Not sure where the NPS and media got that number, but the data from NWAC and SNOTEL only show about 14" in the heaviest 36-hour period of that storm.

The heaviest rainfall I've ever seen recorded at any SNOTEL sites was during that same storm, on the south side of Mt St Helens at June Lake (3440 ft) and Swift Creek (4440 ft), which got over 14" in a calendar day and over 20" in 36 hours:
[tt]
        June   Swift  --Paradise--
        Lake   Creek  SNOTEL  NWAC
        3440'  4440'   5120'  5550'
2006   
Nov 2:   3.4"   3.0"   2.5"   2.55"
Nov 3:   5.4"   5.9"   2.8"   2.84"
Nov 4:   4.1"   4.1"   2.1"   2.00"
Nov 5:   4.0"   3.4"   4.3"   3.45"
Nov 6:  14.6"  13.9"   9.7"  10.07"
Nov 7:   5.8"   5.2"   2.7"   3.06

Total:  37.3"  35.5"  24.1"  23.97"  (6 days)

Top36:  20.5"  18.9"  13.8"  14.29"  (most in any 36 hour period, late evening Nov 5 - early AM on Nov 7)
[/tt]

June Lake only got a few inches of precip this time, as did Paradise.

Pigtail Peak Snotel

Malfunction or legit?

15.50 inches in 24 hours as of March 31 @ 2:00 p.m.

7.00 inches in an hour March 30 @ 8:00 p.m.


I think you answered your own question, with the 7" in one hour bit. Obvious malfunction, and all the precip data is wrong too.

In this case, there's another telemetry site in almost exactly the same location: the NWAC site at the top of White Pass, which is apparently within a few yards of the Pigtail Peak SNOTEL site and at the same elevation within 20 ft. There's not much rain at the NWAC site in the last day, only 1", so all the precip data from Pigtail in the last day must be wrong, both before and after the 7" glitch:
[tt]
3-31-2011
Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center
White Pass Ski Area, Washington

MM/DD  Hour  Temp  Temp    RH    RH  Wind  Wind  Wind  Wind  Hour Total Total
         PST     F     F     %     %   Min   Avg   Max   Dir Prec. Prec.  Snow
             5780' 4480' 5780' 4480' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 5780' 5780' 5780'
  3 30  1700    34    40   100    88     3    12    34   283   .01   .01   165
  3 30  1800    34    39   100    92     4    15    39   277   .01   .02   165
  3 30  1900    35    40   100    90     5    17    39   277     0   .02   165
  3 30  2000    36    40   100    91     6    19    37   283     0   .02   165
  3 30  2100    36    41   100    89     4    17    39   284     0   .02   164
  3 30  2200    37    41   100    92     4    18    48   281     0   .02   164
  3 30  2300    37    43   100    90     4    20    45   275   .02   .04   164
  3 31     0    38    43   100    90     5    19    51   283   .03   .07   164
  3 31   100    37    43   100    90     4    17    49   277   .09   .16   163
  3 31   200    38    44   100    89     4    24    70   271   .05   .21   163
  3 31   300    37    43   100    89     5    27    71   269   .08   .29   163
  3 31   400    37    43   100    86     9    31    60   270   .03   .32   163
  3 31   500    35    42   100    85     7    24    53   274   .16   .48   162
  3 31   600    35    40   100    91     6    20    45   273   .12    .6   162
  3 31   700    35    40   100    90     7    20    45   274   .06   .66   162
  3 31   800    34    40   100    89     5    17    44   280   .08   .74   162
  3 31   900    33    39   100    87     6    20    49   284   .07   .81   162
  3 31  1000    33    38   100    88     5    18    39   285   .07   .88   162
  3 31  1100    32    38   100    88     7    19    40   284   .05   .93   162
  3 31  1200    33    38    99    88     4    13    27   285   .03   .96   161
  3 31  1300    33    39   100    88     3    14    36   287   .01   .97   162
  3 31  1400    33    39   100    88     6    19    41   287   .02   .99   161
  3 31  1500    33    39   100    86     7    23    54   283   .01     1   161
  3 31  1600    32    38   100    88    10    27    46   284     0     1   161
[/tt]

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  • jp_
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14 years 10 months ago #199348 by jp_
Perhaps there's a glitch with Buckinghorse as well. 18 miles from Hurricane Ridge which had only half an inch. Granted Buckinghorse is closer to the windward side, but that's a huge difference. Anyone know how these snotel sites could misread like that?

3-31-2011
Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center
Hurricane Ridge, Olympic National Park, Washington

Wind direction not heating and may rime--replacement scheduled

MM/DD Hour Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Wind Hour Total Total
PST F % Min Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow
5260' 5260' 5260' 5260' 5260' 5260' 5260' 5260' 5260'
3 31 1700 35 84 1 6 10 216 0 .46 141
3 31 1600 37 81 0 6 14 235 0 .46 141
3 31 1500 38 78 0 5 12 243 0 .46 140
3 31 1400 39 82 0 7 14 257 0 .46 141
3 31 1300 38 85 1 8 16 246 0 .46 141
3 31 1200 39 88 0 7 20 251 0 .46 142
3 31 1100 37 88 1 7 17 230 0 .46 142
3 31 1000 36 93 0 6 16 218 0 .46 142
3 31 900 35 95 0 11 24 200 0 .46 143
3 31 800 34 96 5 13 26 192 0 .46 142
3 31 700 33 97 3 15 27 164 0 .46 143
3 31 600 33 98 8 16 25 164 0 .46 143
3 31 500 32 98 7 16 29 164 .02 .46 143
3 31 400 32 98 12 21 39 165 .03 .6 143
3 31 300 32 98 14 21 31 175 .05 .57 143
3 31 200 32 98 17 23 35 179 .11 .52 143
3 31 100 34 97 14 24 35 185 .11 .41 143
3 31 0 35 97 14 23 35 186 .06 .3 144
3 30 2300 35 98 4 21 33 186 .02 .24 144
3 30 2200 34 97 10 18 28 183 .02 .22 144
3 30 2100 34 97 9 16 24 181 .01 .2 144
3 30 2000 34 97 8 14 23 192 .01 .19 144
3 30 1900 34 97 7 14 24 186 .02 .18 144
3 30 1800 34 97 7 11 21 183 0 .16 143
3 30 1700 34 97 5 11 22 192 0 .16 145
3 30 1600 34 96 0 9 23 212 .01 .16 145
3 30 1500 35 94 1 6 14 209 0 .15 145
3 30 1400 35 94 3 9 16 205 .01 .15 144
3 30 1300 34 97 5 9 15 205 0 .14 145
3 30 1200 33 96 7 11 17 201 .02 .14 145
3 30 1100 33 96 8 13 20 199 0 .12 144
3 30 1000 33 96 8 15 23 196 .01 .12 144
3 30 900 33 97 6 13 26 201 .01 .11 145
3 30 800 33 98 5 14 22 198 .04 .1 145
3 30 700 32 98 10 16 26 195 .01 .06 145
3 30 600 33 98 9 16 27 199 .03 .05 145
3 30 500 33 98 5 13 23 204 .02 .02 146
3 30 400 33 97 5 12 27 166 .02 .14 146
3 30 300 33 98 8 15 22 78 0 .12 146
3 30 200 33 98 10 18 30 14 .01 .12 146
3 30 100 33 97 14 20 29 19 .01 .11 146
3 30 0 32 98 9 17 25 36 .01 .1 145
3 29 2300 32 97 10 18 26 172 .01 .09 146
3 29 2200 31 97 12 21 29 300 .01 .08 146
3 29 2100 30 97 11 20 29 94 .01 .07 146
3 29 2000 29 97 11 21 29 20 .03 .06 146
3 29 1900 29 97 13 20 28 40 0 .03 145
3 29 1800 29 96 12 18 27 48 .01 .03 145
3 29 1700 30 95 10 15 24 102 0 .02 146
3 29 1600 32 90 8 13 18 70 .01 .02 145
3 29 1500 33 89 6 10 16 97 0 .01 145
3 29 1400 34 87 4 9 15 104 0 .01 145
3 29 1300 32 88 7 12 18 115 0 .01 146
3 29 1200 30 92 9 15 22 86 0 .01 145
3 29 1100 31 90 7 13 20 81 0 .01 145
3 29 1000 31 92 6 14 21 98 0 .01 146
3 29 900 30 94 8 14 19 121 0 .01 146
3 29 800 30 96 8 12 18 96 .01 .01 145
3 29 700 30 96 8 11 16 104 0 0 146
3 29 600 28 97 5 9 13 119 0 0 146
3 29 500 28 97 8 13 20 127 0 0 146

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  • garyabrill
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14 years 10 months ago - 14 years 10 months ago #199352 by garyabrill
Replied by garyabrill on topic Re: And the winner is....Buckinghorse! Yay!
Yes, I was surprised also with the Pigtail data as White Pass hadn't seen that much on NWAC data. Also, White Pass was pretty much on the southern edge of the rain train for most of the storm, so I'm proud to say I think Buckinghorse wins. ;)

jp, The difference in rainfall from Buckinghorse (I wish I could tell exactly where it is but suffice it to say it is closer to the SW slope of the Olympics near the head of the Dungeness) and Hurricane ridge isn't surprising. The deluge rode in on a jet from the WSW and would have put Hurricane on the downwind side of the Olympics whereas Buckinghorse must be nearer the bulls-eye for orographic precipitation with that wind direction. At times I could see the Mt. Townsend area so it was nearly out of the rainfall completely during those times, (rain shadowed).

Note that there was a 24 hour period where Buckinghorse scored a brilliant 12.4".

I can't, however, imagine that the snowdepth sensor there is working properly. That doesn't make sense.

Amar, thanks for the data from St. Helens from 2006. I wonder about rainfall amounts in the central Cascades from the October event somewhere around that same year. (The event that washed out the west side of Mt. Maude - it's possible that that happened as long ago as 2003.) Despite a run of just a couple of thousand feet, that one cut a 25' deep trench near 6500' on Maude's west side!

Oh, and by the way, judging by the temperatures on Mt. Olympus at the Snowdome, it must surely have snowed there during nearly this entire event. So, Olympus should have gotten a dusting of, oh say, nearly 120" in 24 hours, enough to freshen up the snow surface a bit. :)

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