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"Acid" rain at Snoqualmie
- haggis
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15 years 1 month ago #196651
by haggis
"Acid" rain at Snoqualmie was created by haggis
6.2" rain at Alpental since 3pm yesterday and all near 40F. Damn that is impressive in a not so very nice way. Thats going to hurt the snowpack and I'm sure there will be some holes opening. Hope we finally get the cold bang La Nina is meant to deliver.
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- Jim Oker
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15 years 1 month ago #196652
by Jim Oker
Replied by Jim Oker on topic Re: "Acid" rain at Snoqualmie
You mean "holes enlarging?"
Seemed we hadn't quite gotten the holes filled in yet, at least out in the backcountry.
Cools off mid-week, but then warms up into the weekend per current forecast. Hopefully they're just as wrong in this direction as they were in the other direction a bit over a week ago...
Cools off mid-week, but then warms up into the weekend per current forecast. Hopefully they're just as wrong in this direction as they were in the other direction a bit over a week ago...
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- Amar Andalkar
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15 years 1 month ago #196658
by Amar Andalkar
Replied by Amar Andalkar on topic Re: "Acid" rain at Snoqualmie
It looks like the now 7+" of rain has not hurt the snow depth at all, it's only gone from 68" to 65" -- as usual, rain (even at 40 °F) is almost entirely incapable of melting snow (see this thread from 2 years ago for an explanation of why:
30" of snow lost in 21hrs @ Snoqualmie?
).
The well-consolidated snowpack prior to last night's downpour (due to the last few days of rain) will also limit the formation of severe rain runnels and large holes. Yes, of course there will be rain runnels, and maybe even new holes near creeks after this, but they won't be as bad as they would be if the snowpack were less consolidated when the deluge began.
Anyway, it's a stunning amount of rain, especially the several hours with over 0.4" of rain per hour:
[tt]
Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center
Alpental Ski Area, Washington
Wind sensors unheated and may rime
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24Hr Total
PST F F F % % Avg Max Dir. Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
5400' 4300' 3120' 3120' 5400' 5530' 5530' 5530' 3120' 3120' 3120' 3120'
1 15 1400 33 37 38 88 89 12 20 233 0 0 0 68
1 15 1500 31 35 36 96 99 12 21 169 .01 .01 0 68
1 15 1600 31 33 36 98 99 18 24 138 .14 .15 0 68
1 15 1700 30 33 36 99 100 19 27 143 .1 .25 0 68
1 15 1800 30 32 35 100 100 23 31 148 .16 .41 0 67
1 15 1900 30 32 34 100 100 15 23 147 .24 .65 0 68
1 15 2000 31 32 34 100 100 11 17 157 .34 .99 0 68
1 15 2100 33 32 34 100 100 18 34 225 .28 1.27 0 68
1 15 2200 35 34 34 100 100 24 46 237 .36 1.63 0 68
1 15 2300 36 37 34 100 99 23 50 243 .27 1.9 0 67
1 16 0 36 37 36 100 99 26 50 243 .68 2.58 0 66
1 16 100 36 38 36 100 99 21 43 233 .23 2.81 0 67
1 16 200 37 39 37 100 99 27 69 230 .28 3.09 0 67
1 16 300 38 40 38 100 99 32 57 242 .32 3.41 0 67
1 16 400 37 39 38 100 100 35 63 243 .33 3.74 0 66
1 16 500 37 39 38 100 100 29 48 244 .17 3.91 0 66
1 16 600 37 39 38 100 99 32 52 247 .58 4.49 0 66
1 16 700 38 39 37 100 100 33 58 243 .44 4.93 0 66
1 16 800 37 41 38 100 100 36 61 244 .49 5.42 0 65
1 16 900 37 40 39 100 100 32 57 241 .48 5.9 1 66
1 16 1000 37 40 40 100 100 26 49 236 .3 6.2 0 65
1 16 1100 39 40 38 100 100 34 61 246 .34 6.54 1 65
1 16 1200 38 40 41 99 99 31 61 243 .29 6.83 0 64
1 16 1300 38 40 41 100 100 31 53 241 .18 7.01 0 65
[/tt]
And even more rain is falling at Mount Hood:
[tt]
Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center
Timberline Lodge, Oregon
MM/DD Hour Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total
PST F % Min Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000'
1 15 1400 38 100 0 6 13 287 .12 .12 31 101
1 15 1500 38 100 0 6 13 282 .18 .3 31 100
1 15 1600 39 100 0 6 14 288 .22 .52 0 100
1 15 1700 39 100 4 10 20 297 .22 .74 0 100
1 15 1800 38 100 5 10 17 297 .21 .95 0 99
1 15 1900 38 100 3 9 23 290 .21 1.16 0 99
1 15 2000 38 100 4 9 18 291 .25 1.41 0 99
1 15 2100 37 100 4 9 18 293 .21 1.62 0 99
1 15 2200 37 100 4 9 18 300 .15 1.77 0 99
1 15 2300 37 100 4 8 16 299 .21 1.98 0 98
1 16 0 37 100 4 8 16 297 .31 2.29 0 98
1 16 100 38 100 4 8 18 294 .26 2.55 0 98
1 16 200 38 100 4 9 18 300 .27 2.82 0 97
1 16 300 40 100 4 8 14 293 .14 2.96 -0 97
1 16 400 41 100 3 8 17 288 .38 3.34 0 97
1 16 500 39 100 4 9 23 295 .48 3.82 0 97
1 16 600 38 100 4 8 14 288 .45 4.27 0 96
1 16 700 39 100 4 8 15 284 .44 4.71 0 95
1 16 800 40 100 4 9 19 286 .62 5.33 0 95
1 16 900 40 100 4 9 17 292 .57 5.9 0 95
1 16 1000 40 100 4 10 20 290 .61 6.51 0 95
1 16 1100 39 100 4 10 19 289 .55 7.06 0 93
1 16 1200 40 100 5 11 26 285 .38 7.44 0 93
1 16 1300 40 100 5 12 23 286 .41 7.85 0 91
[/tt]
The well-consolidated snowpack prior to last night's downpour (due to the last few days of rain) will also limit the formation of severe rain runnels and large holes. Yes, of course there will be rain runnels, and maybe even new holes near creeks after this, but they won't be as bad as they would be if the snowpack were less consolidated when the deluge began.
Anyway, it's a stunning amount of rain, especially the several hours with over 0.4" of rain per hour:
[tt]
Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center
Alpental Ski Area, Washington
Wind sensors unheated and may rime
MM/DD Hour Temp Temp Temp RH RH Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24Hr Total
PST F F F % % Avg Max Dir. Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
5400' 4300' 3120' 3120' 5400' 5530' 5530' 5530' 3120' 3120' 3120' 3120'
1 15 1400 33 37 38 88 89 12 20 233 0 0 0 68
1 15 1500 31 35 36 96 99 12 21 169 .01 .01 0 68
1 15 1600 31 33 36 98 99 18 24 138 .14 .15 0 68
1 15 1700 30 33 36 99 100 19 27 143 .1 .25 0 68
1 15 1800 30 32 35 100 100 23 31 148 .16 .41 0 67
1 15 1900 30 32 34 100 100 15 23 147 .24 .65 0 68
1 15 2000 31 32 34 100 100 11 17 157 .34 .99 0 68
1 15 2100 33 32 34 100 100 18 34 225 .28 1.27 0 68
1 15 2200 35 34 34 100 100 24 46 237 .36 1.63 0 68
1 15 2300 36 37 34 100 99 23 50 243 .27 1.9 0 67
1 16 0 36 37 36 100 99 26 50 243 .68 2.58 0 66
1 16 100 36 38 36 100 99 21 43 233 .23 2.81 0 67
1 16 200 37 39 37 100 99 27 69 230 .28 3.09 0 67
1 16 300 38 40 38 100 99 32 57 242 .32 3.41 0 67
1 16 400 37 39 38 100 100 35 63 243 .33 3.74 0 66
1 16 500 37 39 38 100 100 29 48 244 .17 3.91 0 66
1 16 600 37 39 38 100 99 32 52 247 .58 4.49 0 66
1 16 700 38 39 37 100 100 33 58 243 .44 4.93 0 66
1 16 800 37 41 38 100 100 36 61 244 .49 5.42 0 65
1 16 900 37 40 39 100 100 32 57 241 .48 5.9 1 66
1 16 1000 37 40 40 100 100 26 49 236 .3 6.2 0 65
1 16 1100 39 40 38 100 100 34 61 246 .34 6.54 1 65
1 16 1200 38 40 41 99 99 31 61 243 .29 6.83 0 64
1 16 1300 38 40 41 100 100 31 53 241 .18 7.01 0 65
[/tt]
And even more rain is falling at Mount Hood:
[tt]
Northwest Weather and Avalanche Center
Timberline Lodge, Oregon
MM/DD Hour Temp RH Wind Wind Wind Wind Hour Total 24 Hr Total
PST F % Min Avg Max Dir Prec. Prec. Snow Snow
6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000' 6000'
1 15 1400 38 100 0 6 13 287 .12 .12 31 101
1 15 1500 38 100 0 6 13 282 .18 .3 31 100
1 15 1600 39 100 0 6 14 288 .22 .52 0 100
1 15 1700 39 100 4 10 20 297 .22 .74 0 100
1 15 1800 38 100 5 10 17 297 .21 .95 0 99
1 15 1900 38 100 3 9 23 290 .21 1.16 0 99
1 15 2000 38 100 4 9 18 291 .25 1.41 0 99
1 15 2100 37 100 4 9 18 293 .21 1.62 0 99
1 15 2200 37 100 4 9 18 300 .15 1.77 0 99
1 15 2300 37 100 4 8 16 299 .21 1.98 0 98
1 16 0 37 100 4 8 16 297 .31 2.29 0 98
1 16 100 38 100 4 8 18 294 .26 2.55 0 98
1 16 200 38 100 4 9 18 300 .27 2.82 0 97
1 16 300 40 100 4 8 14 293 .14 2.96 -0 97
1 16 400 41 100 3 8 17 288 .38 3.34 0 97
1 16 500 39 100 4 9 23 295 .48 3.82 0 97
1 16 600 38 100 4 8 14 288 .45 4.27 0 96
1 16 700 39 100 4 8 15 284 .44 4.71 0 95
1 16 800 40 100 4 9 19 286 .62 5.33 0 95
1 16 900 40 100 4 9 17 292 .57 5.9 0 95
1 16 1000 40 100 4 10 20 290 .61 6.51 0 95
1 16 1100 39 100 4 10 19 289 .55 7.06 0 93
1 16 1200 40 100 5 11 26 285 .38 7.44 0 93
1 16 1300 40 100 5 12 23 286 .41 7.85 0 91
[/tt]
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- Marcus
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15 years 1 month ago #196659
by Marcus
Replied by Marcus on topic Re: "Acid" rain at Snoqualmie
Amar, you're like my little ray of sunshine.
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- haggis
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15 years 1 month ago #196660
by haggis
Replied by haggis on topic Re: "Acid" rain at Snoqualmie
I knew Amar would come back with this! I remember reading that the misty warm rain is the worst from a great physics of snowmelt thread from a few years back. Took the kids to Snoq falls to see the twigs (read large trees) going over. Always fun to watch.
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- Joedabaker
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15 years 1 month ago #196664
by Joedabaker
Replied by Joedabaker on topic Re: "Acid" rain at Snoqualmie
If I could isolate three- 2ft high x 1ft wide and 1ft deep columns of snow.
One of them is packed non-cohesive low density powder at lets say temp of 22 degrees.
The other granular isothermic packed snow 34 degrees.
The last one is cohesive 32 degree high density snow.
If it was possible to equally sprinkle 3 inches of colored water over a 24hr period on the top of each column, which test column would have the most measurable percolation through the snowpack.
It would be interesting to see the results.
I think that the Isothermic would be the fastest, given the spacing the rounding of the snow.
with the least perk being the low density snow.
I'm just basing my science off the snow that falls on the roof of my garage and the rains that follow it. The samples I see tend to lead to very little saturation of liquid into snowpack that is low density and cold, but much quicker into wetter snows.
Any real science out here to verify those thoughts?
One of them is packed non-cohesive low density powder at lets say temp of 22 degrees.
The other granular isothermic packed snow 34 degrees.
The last one is cohesive 32 degree high density snow.
If it was possible to equally sprinkle 3 inches of colored water over a 24hr period on the top of each column, which test column would have the most measurable percolation through the snowpack.
It would be interesting to see the results.
I think that the Isothermic would be the fastest, given the spacing the rounding of the snow.
with the least perk being the low density snow.
I'm just basing my science off the snow that falls on the roof of my garage and the rains that follow it. The samples I see tend to lead to very little saturation of liquid into snowpack that is low density and cold, but much quicker into wetter snows.
Any real science out here to verify those thoughts?
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