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What are the current issues for Mt Rainier skiers?

  • Lowell_Skoog
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #186515 by Lowell_Skoog
While organizing the March 22 centennial ski celebration at Paradise, I wrote :

A commemorative event like this would be a good way to raise the profile of backcountry skiing and its long history at Paradise. This could yield benefits down the road on some of the management issues that TAY'ers are concerned about.


I'm planning to write a Northwest Mountaineering Journal article about 100 years of skiing on Mt Rainier. The article will include more background history than my trip report , and it will describe the centennial celebration.

In addition, I'd like to include in this article a discussion of the issues facing backcountry skiers today (and those likely in the future) at Mt Rainier National Park. Here's where I could use your help. I don't ski in the park all that often, and my ski trips there may be different from yours, so my take on these issues doesn't cover everything. I'd like to get your ideas. This discussion could transform the article from a historical piece into something more.

Can you help? Feel free to post your thoughts here or e-mail them to me directly. (The e-mail link below my name on this posting should work fine. I'd rather get e-mail than private messages.)

Please try to keep the discussion civil and constructive. I know that TAY'ers have a number of peeves with the Park Service, but I'm not interested in starting a bitch session. My intention in this NWMJ article is to present a straightforward survey of current and future issues for skiers on Rainier.

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  • Scotsman
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #186516 by Scotsman
Sunrise opening-- open it when there is still viable skiing and meadow stomping therefore minimised.
Counting skiers on 410 drop from Crystal  boundary and their stated intention to close that boundary.
Selective plowing of White River Campground road in winter to deter legal snowmobiling to campground.
Rangers not allowing kickers to be built at Chinook Pass.
Long range plans for winter access to Paradise.

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  • Andrew Carey
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16 years 10 months ago #186517 by Andrew Carey
Consistency in opening times for the gate at Longmire is important.  These times have improved since the controversy over mid-week closures was resolved this year.  In past years, however, opening times ran from a relatively consistent 9 a.m. in the 90's to very erratic openings, often after 11 a.m., in the 00's.  Sometimes there were complete closures that were inexplicable to the informed public.

Let it be said: no one expects the park to open by 9 a.m. when snowfall was heavy (say 15 inches or more), winds were high, and avalanche danger high.  All day closures under these conditions are fine with me.

That said, i think MRNP could recoup a lot of their lost visitation and serve the public better when they strive for 0900 openings with occasional delays with heavier snows to 1000.   1200 or later openings in midwinter are of little value to skiers as they leave only a couple of hours to earn your turns.  When conditions are iffy it would behoove the park to do an early recon and put some quantitative probability data on their road conditions update on theri answering machine (350-569-221 x1 x1 x2) and on their website (by 0700, as this would be the go/no go time for people in Seattle and beyond).  The spokesperson on the machine coulds say:
The gate will open at 0900 (barring unforseen events).
There is a 50% chance the gate will open by 0900 and an 80% chance for 1000.
There is a 90% chance the gate will open by 1000 (barring unexpected equipment failures).

I have lots of former skiing companions who no longer come to Paradise during winter due to past experiences with unexpected late gate openings, extremely crowded parking at longmire due to delayed openings, and ill-tempered citizens too (including fist fights).

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  • Andrew Carey
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16 years 10 months ago #186518 by Andrew Carey
Another issue is plowing. The times that the West-side Road (just inside the Nisqually Entrance) and the Paradise Valley Road (Paradise to Reflection Lakes) are plowed have crept up over the years. The West-side Road (a favorite of XC skiers and snowhoers and an alternate destination to Paradies when the Longmire gate doesn't open or when weather is terrible) has already been plowed. This plowing is to avoid threatened species nesting seasion (spotted owls, marble murrelets) but begs the question: couldn't the plowing be delayed to melt out or until July 1? Little work seems to be done during the snowy spring and often plowing takes place on multiple occasions.

Paradise Valley Road is the safest and favorite route for XC skiers and snowshoers going to reflection lakes and a favorite route for bc skiers wanting to access Mazama Ridge, Pardise Glacier, etc. They are starting the plowing right now (26 March) but won't be using the road for months. This plowing will have to be done over and over and results in lots of damage trees. Threatened species are not an issue. There is no reason not to let some natural melt out occur and to plow the 1st week in May for a Mother's day opening, if that is actually needed (plowing can be concentrated on the Stevens Canyon Road to prepare for the cross-park travel.

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  • Gary Vogt
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16 years 10 months ago - 16 years 10 months ago #186524 by Gary Vogt
New & casual TAY readers may be interested in these related threads from the past couple years:

Summer skiing has been restricted because of perceived meadow damage, when historical and ongoing vegetative impacts due to Park management far exceed all other sources combined.  ("No Skiing Below Pebble Creek")
www.turns-all-ear.com/skiing_snowboardin...ex.php?topic=10692.0
   
Lack of coordination between the various agencies maintaining the dike protecting the Nisqually entrance:
("Mt. Rainier:  Prospects for Future Access")
www.turns-all-ear.com/skiing_snowboardin...ex.php?topic=10743.0    

Attempts to implement a closed boundary policy at Crystal Mtn., supposedly for resource protection, but probably to preserve potential monopoly concession options. ("Mt. Rainier Still Counting 410 Skiers")
www.turns-all-ear.com/skiing_snowboardin...ex.php?topic=11895.0    

Extended road closures caused by repeatedly 'milking' flood damage since 2006 for management's convenience. ("Mt Rainier Achieves Major Milestone")
www.turns-all-ear.com/skiing_snowboardin...ex.php?topic=11909.0    

Elaborating on acarey's comments above:

Despite slight recent improvements, the daily gate opening on average takes twice as long as in the 70's, despite better equipment and less average snow.  This is largely due to the present policy of completely clearing the road & parking lots before opening the gate.  For several decades previously, the policy was to open to several intermediate points, including the Paradise lower lot, as soon as they were plowed.

The premature plowing of the Paradise Valley Road in recent years will happen even sooner each season if the Park implements Uberuaga's plan to revise traffic flow so that uphill traffic uses the Valley Road, "so visitors will not see the mountain before they see the new Visitor Center".   ???

The double standard concerning the Westside Road excludes public vehicles, but allows "administrative use" for the convenience of Park management. This has turned many former late Spring/summer day ski tours into mini-expeditions.

My own additional concerns:

The Park's current General Management Plan suggests moving toward mass transit access for Paradise, with the implied future exclusion of private vehicles, as is the case at Zion & Yosemite Valleys.  Currently, it's legal to park outside the fog line in most plowed turnouts, allowing a wide variety of creative tours & private shuttles.  Mandatory mass transit would no doubt eliminate many of these options.  It also would be difficult, if not impossible, to bring a selection of skis & other equipment to meet uncertain or variable conditions.

Several posts on previous threads have mentioned how Park management facilitates climbing as a glamorous activity, but doesn't seem to understand or support skiing as an equally valid Park use.

Communication from the Park to the public has improved dramatically in the past decade, especially the phone message, but there is still much room for improvement.  There are still too many instances where the phone, web, and Park personnel are putting out conflicting information.

Thanks for trying to bring some of these issues to a larger audience, Lowell. 

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  • Robie
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16 years 10 months ago #186525 by Robie
Access, Access , Access . in all cases and all points of the compass around the park. All roads from the west side to mowich and Sunrise. Skiers and ski mountaineers have used ,defended and supported the park. when we arn"t skiing ,were climbing or hiking or biking or just taking Auntie Em or nieghbors up for a picnic.
Let's talk imagination here. Yurts in yellowstone,well why not at paradise ? Barn flats - two yurts could be put one for bunk one for cooking . Use a lottery system. Demand would be big.
Sunrise- open early and use use porta johns .Please don't talk about impact when we have a snow cat to plow the intertube snow play area .
What's with the Narada falls restrooms /warming hut being closed ?
we could do so much more with little impact than is currently being done.
We have been short on money for staffing at say Mowich or sunrise for early opening. historically we skied all these areas much earlier in the season
What about "Skiers for the park "or some such support /liason group.

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