Time for new Alpental BC rules?

Patrol at Alpental opened the BC around 2 today, and we were the first group to legitimately ski elevator gate... but it was a dubious distinction, since it was already skied out when we got there. So here is my gripe: What happened to the days when Alpy patrol pulled passes for skiing in closed areas? When I was younger, I had my pass taken at least 3 times for poaching, but these days no one seems to care. What's up with that?

On a similar note, if Patrol stops caring whether people abide by their closures, why don't they institute a Baker style policy requiring shovel, probe, transceiver, and buddy?

Are there any Alpental patrolers out there who can answer these questions?

My two cents are that well posted signs informing people of a renewed strict policy and random checks throughout the season would put the kibosh on the rampant poaching in a hurry. Losing your pass for a week or two is a pretty strong deterrent, likewise fear of it happening.

Moreover, on a safety related note, if the BC isn't open because it's dangerous, then Patrol really shouldn't be allowing people to risk their lives (not to mention Patrollers' lives when they have to rescue the poachers in dangerous areas). If the BC isn't dangerous, then why not just open it?

I totally agree with all your points and was actually thinking of starting a post on just this topic.

I have never skied anywhere where people so rampantly cut ropes. It's really weird. I have only had a pass at Alpental for four years, but have never heard of anyone getting in trouble for cutting ropes.

I have to admit that I have started doing it myself (not into the backcountry, but under Chair 2 for example).

There are at least two big problems about the current Alpental situation: 1) Tons of people cutting the boundary, 2) People assume the "backcountry" is safe once it's open (because they so infrequently open it?)

I wish that they patrol didn't try to control the bc, and instead had a Mt.Baker style gate. I also wish they had in bounds caution/cliff signs, not closed signs, for reasonably skiable terrain. I think people cutting these areas constantly makes them lose respect for the (in my opinion) more serious backcountry boundary.

-Matt

I have to agree that there is a mixed message going out, albeit unintended. What I'm afraid of is that pushing the issue will just lead to more closures. But, with rope ducking running rampant and more people skiing the backcountry than years past, something has got to give. Unfortunately, it is pretty hard for them to police these areas, as people coming out the traverse can claim to be unticketed BC travellers. Of course, that traverse is within the permit boundary, so I dont think unticketed use is legal within the ski season.

While it may result in less powder preservation and potentially more risky behaviour, I agree that an open gate policy like Baker has with probe/shovel/beacon/buddy requirements and checks might be a better solution. From a management perpective, I think the main issue here is that these "gates" access areas within the permit area, which may open the ski area to more liability than a gate on the actual permit boundary. However, doing this would make policing much easier, since anyone coming out the traverse without the proper gear or a partner would stick out, and those going in would be more prepared (gear wise, if not experience wise, which is some marginal improvement over the current state of affairs).

Anyone stop to think that it is Patrol that puts most of the tracks there? I have been witness to many alppy patrolers bragging about how sweet their job is ( usually as they ski over to chair 2 for more). Alpen-small is small enough without the good old slackers taking the best shots in the spirit of " safety meetings"

I will own my part of all this... as a "dawn patrol" lover, I have flicked off more than one set of pro patrolers as they come up to start avi work for the day.... and then skied away

ski first or ski smart

I almost started a thread on this very topic after hearing about what happened Saturday. The entire upper mountain shut down because of poachers skiing in above patrollers trying to do their work in the near BC. Conditions were hair trigger after a large amount of snow in a short amount of time and conditions were ripe for burying unsuspecting poachers or patrollers who could have been hosed by others not actually involved in control work. A father and his 9 year old son were among those skiing in above patrollers in closed areas. I'm not sure if word got out about the situation, but I hope it does.

The problem that the patrol faces at Alpental is that staffing levels do not allow for manned gates while BC control work is under way. If a guard or two is placed at the BC gates, there is only enough manpower to get one two man team out at a time. This slows down the process and makes it much more dangerous for those doing the work. Two teams of two (three even better) is much more efficient and tons safer when control work is under way. So they can either sit at the gates and catch poachers, or do the work and get things open ASAP. The best tool for stabilizing slopes is skier compaction, so the sooner things get open, the better. If poachers happen to get caught, they do lose their lift tickets. The patrol's job should not be to babysit or be the ski police, it should be to make the mountain as safe as is appropriate (there's a whole other topic) and give aid to those who need it. If the inconsiderate poachers need babysitting or policing, the area should hire "ambassadors" or "ski police" to do that job.

On a day like Saturday, the Elevator gate area is controlled with some explosive work and some ski cutting. Once that area is complete, work begins at Knoll 1 and progresses out. There are no explosives used, and all of the possible pockets that could slide are not controlled. Just the main paths and most likely areas are ski cut and evaluated so that ski area patrons are not going to end up in certain death traps. There are a lot of places where one can easily traverse into a terrain trap that can be hosed by others setting off slides above. This is one of the reasons that the elevator gate stays closed for quite a while after control has been completed in the near BC. Poachers don't just endanger themselves, they endanger other poachers and the patrollers who are trying to get the area open. Even after the work is done and the BC is open, there can still be pockets of instability...that is why beacons, probes, shovels, partners,and knowledge on how to move safely and perform efficient rescues are highly recommended, but not yet required tools that all venturing into the BC should posses.

The editorial in SKI? magazine a month or so ago, the letters it generated, and the editors response is not helping the matter any. Maybe some changes in local laws (like in Utah) would help, where poachers can actually be fined and thrown in  jail. I think that the poachers who get worked into a lather over untracked lines should either get some climbing skins and burn off that pent up energy far away from the ski areas, or quit their jobs and get a low paying, high risk job that allows them to be the first to break trail to Piss Pass, cut off a few slides, maybe take a ride or two and get a few turns before the paying public gets a chance to experience a "controlled" backcountry experience.

Just an FYI, the long liability release they make you sign in order to receive your "backcountry pass" says there is no control work done beyond the rope line. Not that it should matter, but a "CLOSED - Avalanche Control Work in Progress" sign might get more respect than a plain and simple "CLOSED". Even the numbest of skulls can generally comprehend the danger posed by live explosives.